slow food

[spin-up]

How can you train yourself in burning sugars slower? I burn like an oven. Any ride longer than 3 or 4 hours makes me nervous because I'll run out of sugars before the end of the ride, even carrying all bars and gels and banana's that fit in my pockets. There must be a psychological aspect, but knowing that doesn't do the trick.

It will probably come with the years BUT I have some ambitious rides this very summer and don't want to worry about the food. So is there something you can do on a short term to make your body more economical?

Also maybe you have food tips like things you can make at home to take on the ride with lots of slow sugars (not too complicated, I'm not much of a cook)

[Legspeed]

How can you train yourself in burning sugars slower?

You can't. However, you can change the type of sugars (carbohydrates) you eat. All of the examples you gave are composed primarily of simple carbs (assuming the unspecified "bars" are something similar to powerbars). Instead, eat complex carbs early in the ride. In other words, eat real food. Some examples: peanut butter & jelly on whole wheat bread, ham & swiss wrapped in a whole wheat tortilla, bagels, mixed nuts, bacon & egg taquitos, fig newtons.

Try to save the simple carbs (gu, powerbars, etc) for the last couple of hours in the ride or to get you through a temporary "low".

I try to eat things with plenty of fat and protein in them on rides that go longer 8 hours. Another tip is to stay as aerobic as you can. It's hard to choke down a PBJ at threshold.... ;)

[spin-up]

You sure you can't? So its just a gene thing? Anyway about the carbs, its pretty much all I eat. We do the fit for life programm (vegetarian, all grains & vedges and so, sounds boring but its ok..)

Good point though about the fat. I think I miss those, and staying aerobic fats are I think better fuel than carbs. Also you can carry more, they weigh less. Stupid I didn't figure this out myself. Thanks.

Sorry for being curious, what rides you take over 8 hours?

http://www.calvin.biochem.usyd.edu.au/GIDB/searchD3.htm

GI index

[Legspeed]

I've been doing a lot of randonneuring for the past several years. Week after next I have a 600km brevet on the schedule. I finished this distance last year in a little less than 36 hours. I also have a 1000km event on the calendar at the end of May.

[spinup]

I'm impressed.. You should join us on PBP. How many training hours you do weekly?

About the food try this: peanutbutter honey and banana on dark bread. Squeeze hard you can fit in 4 or 5.

Guest thanks for the site

[Legspeed]

Don't be so impressed. To finish PBP within the time limit (1200k in 90 hours) you only have to average 13kmph (or 8mph). Being old, fat, and slow, this type of "racing" suits me well. For what it's worth, the first finishers in last year's PBP came in just over 42hours! That's six hours longer than it took me to finish half the distance.

My training volume averages about 20 hours per week, but I'm tapering for the 600k. Next week will only be about 12 hours and the week after the event will only be 5 hours or so. I'll go into maintenance mode (~10 hours) for the rest of May until the 1000k.

I've found honey to be a little too messy, so I tend to use jelly instead. Although I will admit that banana with honey works faster for (on) me than any of the gel concoctions. I like your idea about the dark breads!

I was trained and qualified for last year's PBP, but fell a little short on money. I am definitely planning on 2007 and will try to keep in touch as the event draws closer.

For some reason, that link doesn't work for me. What's the general drift?

[spin-up]

Sorry, I was being polite to thank guest. Couldn't get there myself but I'm always having problems with these things so was a little embarrassed.

So.. guest, thanks for the site but could you check it it doesn't work.

I'm still impressed with your performance legspeed because I admire when people have this concentration to do something so long. I am skinny and pretty fast (does age matter? ok 39) - but I can NOT do the 600. Yet. I do the explosive things under 5 or 6 hours. But I want to get to were you are, just get on that bike and go and go forever. It must take a lot of mental training. How come you don't get bored?

About PBP we'll get back to that.

I went back myself and that site must have crashed my apologies spin up but there is alot of sites out there that have the GI index I just like that one because you only had to put in the food you were thinking of eating and it cam up with a number that seemed "ON".


http://www.ultrunr.com/glycemic.html

This site looks good I like that the glycemic index is about the quality of the carbohydrates, not the quantity on this site.
When I go on those long rides my meals for it start 4 to 5 days in advance of my actually clipping in. I had seen a article that someone placed on the old forum about loading and preparedness for the events that lay ahead but I no longer have it and that forum is so gone. Things that I like to bring are like boiled potatoes yuk I know but millions of Irish and Idahoans can't be wrong I wish you well on your rides.

[spin-up]

Must be great riding in Idaho, all the flats... open fields are great - there is just the wind to struggle against and they go on and on and on

This site is better just I have to use my dictionary about every 10th word but I get the idea

Potatoes - can't imagine to eat that in free will but hey lets try out (with mustard) - it makes sense potatoes have lots of slow carbs (It'll look funny those potatoes in your pockets)

you have fun on your rides too!

[Legspeed]

One staple I forgot to mention was Irish Gu. Take a resealable sandwich bag and fill it with mashed potatos. Very easy to consume while riding - just tear off a corner of the bag and squeeze.

[Bike4ale]

Speaking of potatoes, has anyone ever done America's Most Beautiful Bike Ride. It's a 100 mile century around Lake Tahoe, NV held every June. Breathtaking! My wife and I did it in 2002 for Leukemia & Lymphoma's Team in Training program.

There are 2 really tough climbs. One at about 15 miles and the other at about 80 miles. We were told there would be a man with huge trays of boiled, salted potatoes a few miles before the last climb. It didn't sound appetizing until I got there. To date, those were the BEST TASTING POTATOES I'VE EVER HAD. I don't know how many I scarfed down. They gave me amazing energy to climb Spooner's Ridge.

Anyone from Powerbar reading? There's your next flavor.

[CancunCarol]

I don't believe that their is a recipe with potatoes that I don't like from the plainest to the most complex :!:
That goes for corn too!

[megale3]

One staple I forgot to mention was Irish Gu. Take a resealable sandwich bag and fill it with mashed potatos. Very easy to consume while riding - just tear off a corner of the bag and squeeze.

Hey Leg,
Remeber that part of Animal House when John Belushi was at the lunch table? His line "ok guys what am I?" :mrgreen:
Meg

train your weeknesses race your strengths
Chris Carmichael

[groove]

Its worth getting more information on the gylcemic index if you looking into carbs.

[SLICK]

Hey Beer Dude,

I'm doing the Lake Tahoe ride this year with TNT for Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. I'm the mentor for the Rhode Island Team. I'm really looking forward to it. I hear it really is the Most Beautiful Bike Ride. Also doing the MS 150 later in June and another century in September. I've never eaten potatoes on a ride but when you hit the 50 & 75 mile stops in a century the PB&J sandwiches are about the best tasting things you can ever imagine!! How tough are those two climbs at Tahoe? Want to be sure to get the whole team through the entire 100 miles. 8)

SLICK

[spin-up]

I did the Irish Stu, added butter for extra energy & everything went fine. It's good to have something salty on the bike. I had some left over (totally forgot about it because I never have leftovers after a ride). After putting on my jacket I jumped in the car, I was in a hurry to get home. I'm sure you get the picture... the potatoes were in my neck. And all over my back.

The moral: potatoes are good food on the bike and give you lots of energy but NEVER forget to finish them OR don't make a very big hole in the bag!

Any other low GI hi carb recepies?

[spin-up]

sorry I ment Irish GU (Stu maybe another time)

[JFK]

I have no affilliation with the company, but I love the nutritional products available from hammernutrition.com (you'll be directed to the site, which is really under ecaps, their other division, but don't panic, you'll be in the right place).

The company was started by some ultra-endurance athletes and they have two amazing products for events/rides that go beyond two hours. One is called Sustained Energy, the other is their newer product, Perpetuem. I have used both and prefer the latter. They are both powders, so you mix them in the concentration you need and go from there. I've done centuries where I have had no solid food the entire time I'm on the bike, just using their stuff and I've felt terrific. Also, their espresso gel is the best. Tasty, a bit of caffeine and you can mix it in water or carry it in a flask.

HTH,

[spin-up]

Thanks Jennifer, I'll see where I can get these powders. I tried some powders and gels allready but none of them were satisfactory. I will try these. I also prefer non-liquid foods cause they are easier to take in during a race. I have some long rides coming up and will try them out & let you know.

What rides do you do? And where? Ever been in Europe for cycling?

By the way Legspeed, what you said about burning sugars slower being something you can't train yourself in I don't agree. Last few months I've sort of trained myself in going with lesser food. And it works. If it's true what you say that is really bad news if you want to improve yourself. Because in my case I would have to carry so much food that it would be impossible to go on long rides and make a good time.

Anyway how did the 600 km go? And didn't you do a 1200 also? How long did it take you? Any climbing? You use a triple?

Ciao! Clarien

[Legspeed]

Well, Clarien, I stand by what I said, you can't train your metabolism any more than you can train hemoglobin to carry more oxygen. That doesn't mean you can't train for strength and endurance. Improvements in both of these areas help you to stay relatively aerobic, which implies a greater energy contribution from fat metabolism consistent with your ability to ride distance without pulling a snack cart .

As for my 600, the plan was to ride about 225 miles the first day, get a good night's sleep, and finish the remaining 150 the next day. To paraphrase Dickens, it was the worst of times, it was the best of times. Weather conditions were a little adverse: temps in 90s, humidity in the 90s, and a stiff 20mph wind out of the south. I was mentoring a couple of folks through their longest distance, so like an idiot, I pulled this little group for 70 miles into the headwind. I got dehydrated and once we made the turn back north, the tailwind didn't provide much cooling and I started to overheat. That made the last 100 miles for the day pretty miserable. I got nauseous and didn't eat much either, compounding my woes. Still we all managed to get back in with plenty of time for a good meal and about 4 hours of sleep. I felt exhausted as we started out the next day, but got progressively stronger as the day went on. Unfortunately, one of my proteges stopped eating early on and bonked pretty bad about half way through. She wanted to abandon, but I was able to provide just enough encouragement, gu, and nap breaks to keep her going. It was quite rewarding to watch her rally the closer we got to the finish. Oh, and she was doubling her previous longest ride. Talk about one mentally tough lady!

Total climbing, if I recall correctly, was something like 7500 meters, but nothing really long or really steep. Just a lot of rolling terrain. I kept my usual gearing, a 54/42 crankset with an 11/21 cassette. In retrospect, I could have used a 23 or 25 in the back as my knees were a little sore the next day.

My 1200 is scheduled for August. I'll definitely have a triple on for that, as I hear the terrain between Boston and Montreal is a little steeper than I'm used to.

[spin-up]

That is a great story! You should open a site to share your experiences on. (Please let me know in august when you ride the 1200 how it went and what your time was)

Its pretty amazing when you can find the energy to encourage someone else after having gone thru dehydration and exhausting yourself.

Bad enough I have to admit... I'm rather selfish outdoors, first make sure I get my a.. over the finishline and then turn around to yell my friend over... But that is also probably the difference between doing races and doing ultra-long cycling. (just covering up for my lousy character...)

Anyway to get back to the metabolism and its unchangebility... This is something that really interests me. Ok so when your theory is true so how do you explain this: Someone is on a diet. The firt weeks he loses a lot of weight. But then you get to the point were the body adjusts itself to the lower intake of calories and gets more economical. The diet loses effect. (Btw I don't believe in diets anyway I always see people getting back to their original weight and go over it)
So this is a case that proves that your metabolism DOES change. Next to that I accept the part that staying aerobic more will lower the need for carbs (sugars)

Something else: you cannot click on more oxygen to hemoglobin I agree but you CAN work on a higher amount of of hemoglobin in your blood so you CAN train on this.

[spin-up]

One more thing on this... I guess you were more right than I thought Legspeed. After training training and training this summer I can now do 6 hours on 1 banana... (well - with a decent breakfast of course)

And the reason - I have to admit - is lower average HR, instead of slower metabolism!

Thanks for the advises. Now - I'm still waiting for your report on the 1200!!!

[JFK]

Thanks Jennifer, I'll see where I can get these powders. I tried some powders and gels allready but none of them were satisfactory. I will try these. I also prefer non-liquid foods cause they are easier to take in during a race. I have some long rides coming up and will try them out & let you know.

What rides do you do? And where? Ever been in Europe for cycling?


Hey Spin-up, I didn't mean to ignore your questions back in June - I just noticed them now...I tend to do uphill races in the Eastern US. I've lived in Europe, but that was way back before I was into cyclling. Wish I could come back now with my bike. Well, one of these days...

Hope you got a chance to try the Hammer stuff. It's kept me going all summer and even now into the fall.

[yvonne]

curious to know what worked for you ...

sorry i didn't get into this thread ealier, but i believe you're already on the right track with e-caps stuff. the sustained energy product is great (once you get beyond the taste). worked well for my boss and his enterage when he did the transcontinental ride last summer. my small portion from NY to Boston was well fueled even though i fought it the whole way ( i totally have food texture issues, if you ask me to eat a banana, i'll cry)

<Y>

[JFK]

Yvonne,

You should try the new Perpetuem from Hammer. I like it better than SE (taste and texture). I also think that the slightly different formula agrees with me better.

[yvonne]

that's great news! since moving to san diego, i'm able to ride later into the year, so the long rides continue! i'll definitely check out the product ~ i'll let you know!

[spin-up]

Too bad.. the Hammer food was not at my bike store. They'll try to get it imported. Anyway now I use the liquid foods from Born. They are very satisfying, you hardly need any compact food. Also, they have very little taste. I get sick from all the banana, raspberry and so on flavours...

[Patrick]

I've seen HammerGel in local bike shops but Perpetuem and Sustained Energy generally have to be purchased from the manufacturer. Try:
e-caps.com

It is a great website on nutrition issues. They also have a list serve which often has a valuable discussion.

[Legspeed]

If it's not available locally, why not make your own?

4 parts Maltodextrin
1 part sugar
1 part water
sea salt to taste
flavoring to taste (Tang, Kool-Aid, cocoa powder,etc)

[spin-up]

FIRST... cruel and sudden I lost my faith in the magic and complexity of the Spinning(R) Programm (hey it's just 3 moves on a bike)

NOW... you rip away my faith in the magic and complexity of Sport Food (hey it's just sugarwater)

WHAT will be taken NEXT? My faith in democracy? In the intergrity of your president? In Santa Claus?

what a rude place is this

[Legspeed]

But its *complex* sugar water. Muahahahahahah