Learning

[stephbc]

I've had my road bike for almost a year. I didn't ride during the cold winter months but am back in the saddle again and will start preparing for the Ride for the Roses in August.

Last year, I think what did me in was dehydration. Those of you who have done this for a long time...how do you teach yourself to drink enough to stay hydrated? Do you set a timer? Do you eat on a timer? I really felt like I was doing okay during the ride, but I bonked big time at mile 77. At first, I thought it was because I'd only been riding for 3 months, but looking back, I'm pretty sure I was dehydrated. My HR was sitting around 160 even when I felt like I wasn't putting any effort forth. My speed dropped from an average of 16 mph to about 10 mph, even though I felt like I was pedaling my heart out. I finally gave up, got off the bike, and standing still, my heart rate wouldn't drop below 145. I feel like I did the only thing I could do that day - stop pedaling.

But I don't want the same thing to happen to me this year. I want that 100 dammit. So... your advice would be appreciated!

Thanks!

[EastSpin]

I can only speak for me. I try to prepare as much as possible, and control what I can. I have a fueling schedule and race plan that I practice during training and use during events. I never just "eat" when hungry. It is on a timer.

[Patrick]

Try drinking one 24 oz. water bottle every hour. Most fit cyclists can absorb 21 to 24 oz./hr. Try to consume 250 calories, mostly carbohydrates, every hour. Keep your electrolyte consumption up.

See:
http://www.e-caps.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf

[megale3]

Hi Step
I was at that same ride last year and the major problem that most people lost salt and electrolights due to sweating so bad and the water was not doing any good -people had salt stains everywhere. That ride was a hair dryer -if I remember it was like 90 degrees wth the wind coming out of the west at 15 MPH. The sage vehicals were full and they were actually tour busses :shock: And the medical tent was full of people at the finish line some with IV's getting rehydrated.Looked like something out of a M*A*S*H unit. I was sucking on pretzels and drinking accelerade and had a great but very hot ride. I hope to do it again this year. The beer at the end was most welcome too :P
Hey Nick are you going to do it this year? Texas here I come.
Megale

[Legspeed]

Ummmm, isn't the Ride for the Roses in October? Waiting until August to start training for your first century is, to put it nicely, a bit optimistic.

[madcyclist]

Steph,

Hydration: Your body is ALWAYS in constant communication with you and it lets you know when you have achieve something. With hydration, you will know you are hydrated when your urine is clear (provided you are not on any betacaratine or anything that will color your urine) and you will probably have to run back and forth to the restroom. Now that is is hot you should drink at least 1/2 your body weight in ounces of water. During the ride you should drink a sports drink that has electolytes and minerals. Water will not do. I used to use something called CytoMax, but, I found I like Gatorade better (I use the powder). Just make sure you have enough fluids and that you are taking in enough during you ride. For instance, I drink 12 oz every 5 miles on average on a day up to 80 degrees - a 24 oz bottle is good for 10 miles. The hotter the day, the more I drink.

Eating: In prep for a long ride, I start eating pasta 3 days before the ride including the night before. I don't like eating anything heavy after 6PM, but, the night before the ride is an exception. You will burn a lot of calories and you want to make sure you have you carbs to top off your fuel (glycogen) reserves.

The Ride: So far as for you prep for your century, just ride. Don't worry about being on schedule or whatever. If you can do 60 miles comfortably you can do the century. The key to any long distance riding is pacing yourself and using your energy as effeciently and as evenly distributed as you can. Don't try to stick with any pace lines that are too fast for you - you will suffer at the end. The group I ride with on the Seagull Century (in MD) does the century (riding time) in 4H30M. I do it in about 4H45M, but, I'm hurting. That's because I go out fast with them and in miles 70 thru 85 I'm hurting trying to maintain 19 mph. Moral of my story: stay within yourself. Know what you are capable of doing.

Riding Tip: The trick to doing a long ride like a century without exhausting youself and within a decent time is learning how to ride in a paceline. Paceling is the most effective way because you save energy by drafting. If you can find a group that is pacelining and you all are sharing the work (everybody gets a chance to pull by rotating to the front), you will find you are reaching faster speeds, but, not exhausting yourself). But make sure you understand how a paceline works and how to ride in one before doing this. Pacelining is an advanced group riding technique. So be safe.

Have fun and meet people and ride with people who are in your speed class. It's not a race, but, rather a social event.
--

[stephbc]

Oh Meg, you just made my day. :) I knew I wasn't the only one. They told us when they picked us up that they weren't even supposed to be a sag vehicle, they got called in to help out. But it's nice to hear from someone who was there and rode and knew how damn hot it was. And windy.

Legspeed - I ride all spring and summer. I start on a training "schedule" in August. 10 weeks out from the event.

Mad, THANK YOU for your response. You offered some great advice. One thing though is I feel better being on a specific schedule so that I have to ride. Also, the paceline thing...I'm working on that. It scares me, but I know that's one of the reasons I didn't make it last year. I was basically on my own AND we pushed ourselves way too hard early on. Beginners.

Hopefully, a little more knowledge and a few more miles on my legs this year will help get me through. I love riding. I love the torture. :)

[Mia]

We talk about hydrating during the ride and eating correctly 1-3 days before the ride, but let's not forget that we also need to hydrate before the ride as well. Remember, if you are thirsty, you are already 6-10% dehydrated so many of us that drink plenty during the ride are already in an iffy state. Hydrate the day or a few days BEFORE the ride making sure, as mentioned, you get up at least once during the night to urinate. Make sure your pee is light to white in color. Don't do caffeine and sodas a few days before. If you want nitty gritty, weigh yourself before and after a workout to make sure you are replentishing enough prior to the event.
Just my experience with years of endurance cycling.
Mia

[Patrick]

I agree you should not start your ride in a dehydrated state. Be careful of your electrolyte balance if you are going to attempt to “supercompensate” with water – consider an electrolyte drink instead. Hyponatremia, a condition known as "water intoxication," kills a few marathon runners, women more than men, every year. You can avoid nocturnal urination by stopping your hydration about 4 hours before bed. Depending on your vitamin consumption, you may not be able to obtain clear or near-clear urine.

[Mia]

Hyponatremia - Love that word Patrick! I find that drinking pure spring water and never tap water helps with that. Great points.
Mia

[JFK]

Mia,

Spring water will not make a difference in terms of hyponatremia. It may taste better than your tap water, but it can still kill you if you drink it to excess (note that it almost impossible to drink water to excess in a non-exercise situation, so salut! and enjoy your water).

I should point out, in reference to Patrick's remark, that electrolyte drinks have never been shown to prevent hyponatremia. That is, yes, they contain sodium, but if you overdo it, you could still end up diluting your blood sodium since the amount of sodium in commercial drinks is not that high. If it were it would interfere with palatability. In any case, as Nancy Clark (the sports nutritionist) said, if your stomach is sloshing, you've got too much on board and slow it down. The folks who manage to achieve fatal hyponatremia have so overdone the water consumption it's pretty amazing. imagine gaining 9 kg (yes, as in nearly 20 pounds) in the course of a marathon. I'd wager that someone is spending more time drinking than running.

If you keep yourself well-hydrated (light-colored urine is sufficient, no need to make yourself crazy trying to make it clear) and drink no more than 28 oz (about 1 standard water bottle) per hour, you'll be in good shape all around. I personally prefer a drink with carbs and electrolytes, but it depends on whether you plan to eat food or snacks along the way, how long you plan to be out for, etc. etc. etc.

[madcyclist]

"... and drink no more than 28 oz (about 1 standard water bottle) per hour, you'll be in good shape all around."

Watch it there ...

I wouldn't use this as a rule of thumb. There are a lot of factors involved in how much fluid you should take in liek the weather conditions (especially now that is it hot).

I find that I drink 12-15 oz every 20 minutes if it's really hot (Sunny 85+ degrees with 40+ humidity).

My rule of thumb is to drink every 5-10 minutes. Whether that equates to 28 ounces per hour or not is pointless. My point is that you have to make sure you are taking in fluids regularly and as frequently as possible.

You can always stop and get more water for your mix. BTW, I also bring a baggie of powdered Gatorade (with the right portions in it per bottle). I use about 2 to 2.5 scoops per 28 oz bottle depending on how hot it is (the hotter, the more I use - but up to 2.5 scoops).

Good discussion and it is very appropo given the time of the year.
--

[JFK]

"... and drink no more than 28 oz (about 1 standard water bottle) per hour, you'll be in good shape all around."

We were talking about hypnatremia and I didn't make that up, it's a standard guideline (ACSM, for one, has signed on to that). Unless you know your sweat rate and sweat sodium concentration, it's going to be very difficult to titrate your intake exactly. The point is to avoid over-hydrating during exercise, while maintaining euhydration (normal body water status) the rest of the time, since only mental patients have been known to induce hyponatremia in non-exercise situations. IOW, drink all you care to off the bike and don't get carried away on the bike. That was the gist of the post. It does not mean that 32 oz per hour will send you over the edge, but for many people, you don't need a whole lot more than that. Again, lots of variables, trying to keep yourself in middle ground, neither under- nor over-doing it.

[Patrick]

I agree -- it's not about how much water you lose through perspiration in hot/humid weather, it's about how much your body will absorb. I found through six years of doing brevets, double centruies, and two 1200Ks, that I function best on about 26oz/hr.

[JFK]

I also think it's important to note that dehydration (as we know it through athletics, not from being in the desert or something) has performance consequences, while hyponatremia has life-threatening ones. I know which one I'd rather tend towards. That said, I try personally, and advise others, to keep in between the two poles as best you can.

But as Patrick says, it's really about absorption, and there are limits. That's why I love Nancy Clark's description of your stomach sloshing. Given how quickly and directly water is absorbed, if it's sloshing in your belly, you know you're ahead of your curve.

One more thing, you need to take in 150% of what you sweated away (even if you took in water during your event or ride) to restore your body water to what it was/should be. Best way to figure this out is to weigh pre and post (keeping in mind that a pint is a pound...now if only I knew how many ml a pint was....) and calculate from there. A caveat though, if you take it in all at once or over a fairly short period, you'll just pee it all back out. You have to do it slowly over many hours to make sure your kidneys don't just flush it back out.

Happy riding and drinking! :)

[spin-up]

Nice discussion!! We're discussing food and sportdrinks on our local forums too, since here the weather has been changing around from a STONE cold spring to UNBEARABLE hot and humid the last few weeks....

And with the change of weather you have to adjust your sportfluids and food intake.

Good tips so far. Here are mine:

1. for long rides use a camel bag and a timer (on your watch?) to be reminded to drink f.e. every 15 minutes
2. make sure your fluids are not too cold, the closer to body temp the faster they are absorbed
3. ALWAYS refill your drinks at the stops
4. STOP EATING 2 hours before the ride, if you eat shortly before the start your blood sugar goes up and the energy your muscles use will be mostly sugers right from the beginning, which is not so economical, soon after you start riding you can start drinking
5. after the ride refill your carbo's immediate (drink sportdrinks, fruitjuice and eat fruits)

(....- OK this comes from someone who made all the beginners mistakes!! :( From stuffing myself short before startoff to not refilling my bottles at the pitstops (to save time - ridiculous!!!). Also what I did was not eating or drinking after the ride because I was too tired and didn't feel like eating. STUPID but hey this is how you learn right? :wink: )

[stephbc]

Great posts from everyone.

Overhydrating seems to be the fitness "buzz word" these days (and fitness buzzwords drive me nuts) and I understand the need for people to be aware of it, but don't we all think that dehydration is a heckuva lot more likely to happen than overhydration?

Spin-up, thanks for the advice, I am going to definitely get a camelbak and see if my husband's watch has a timer. :)

[madcyclist]

"I understand the need for people to be aware of it, but don't we all think that dehydration is a heckuva lot more likely to happen than overhydration?"

Steph,

I think you hit the nail on the head and this is EXACTLY my point. While riding on the bike in the heat I am not worried about overhydrating. Yes, it MAY happen but in my experience, it is much less likely than dehydration.

I'd rather take the fluids in at a quicker rate and more frequently than my usual rate while being on the bike in the heat rather than not being worried about taking down too much thus overhydrating. Not to discount the input on overhydrating, but, in my limited experience of doing long rides (multiple metric and full centuries over the summer), participatiing in races in the heat, officiating USCF races in the heat, and instructing and participating in SPINNING classes in rooms with no A/C, I have never experienced nor encountered someone who has experienced the effects of overhydration.

However, I can personally attest to experiencing the effects of dehydration, which is more likely IMHO. In the summer, I try to be very careful about hydration especially if I know I am going to ride or have some kind of activity in the sun/heat.

Although hypnatremia may be life threatening, dehydration is a more likely killer or debilitator.

I am not worried about hypnatremia.
--

[spin-up]

I once rode with this guy who drank 13 liters of water that day... and he felt okay!!!! even GOOD!

(I told him he was crazy anyway, I mean, 13 liters... that doesn't make sense, even for the 200 k we did, and a hot hot day... and than he said... listnen, this is funny, he said: well men have to drink MORE than women - see I myself only drank about 3 liters- LOL /he made that up of course!!)

the risk of taking in too much liquids is indeed so much less than taking in too little!!

btw good luck on the 100!!!

[raptor]

A dehydration (or heat stroke - the answer is still unknown) tragedy:

http://ogrehut.net/trails.php/TheFamily/120Sylvia?os=14&tv=0

Lynn

[JFK]

This is such a tragedy. Sometimes there just isn't enough water (or anything except coolth) to overcome the threat that heat poses to the body. In triple digit temps (which the story said these folks endured), the body cannot radiate heat away because there is no thermal gradient. You end up storing heat. Blood flow to the extremities can take up a lot more circulation than the body can really spare, esp. when there is central demand for increased blood flow (to maintain blood pressure, for example). Eventually you just end up with shock, coma, sometimes death. This poor girl and her family. Children and teens also respond differently to heat than do adults. Just as you have riders (like Ullrich) who do really well in heat, you have others who tend to decompensate (like Armstrong). And those are incredibly fit people. Sometimes the rest of us don't stand a chance against mama Nature.

[Patrick]

Spin-up, FWIIW, the coaching materials I've read suggest that the colder the water, the more rapidly it is absorbed. I've seen references to studies that support this but I've never read them. Even if I start a ride with frozen water bottles, it only takes about an hour or two to bring them to ambient temperature.

[spin-up]

Spin-up, FWIIW, the coaching materials I've read suggest that the colder the water, the more rapidly it is absorbed. I've seen references to studies that support this but I've never read them. Even if I start a ride with frozen water bottles, it only takes about an hour or two to bring them to ambient temperature.

Hi Pat, how are you!!

About the water temp, this is what I read: when the water is icy cold it will take (precious) energy to be heated up to body temp, and only at body temp it will be aborbed by the tissues. So first of all it will cost you energy (which of course you want to safe for riding!!) and second it takes longer to be absorbed

OK so this is what I read!! Doesn't have to be exactly true -I'l try get some more info!

ciao! Clarien

[Legspeed]

Roughly speaking, it only takes 1 kilocalorie to bring 1 ounce (US) of water from freezing to body temperature. Given that we can absorb 250-300 kilocalories per hour, what makes this expenditure so "precious"?

[raptor]

Most of the time when I'm riding, and in most cases where dehydration is a big concern, losing heat is a good thing!

Lynn

[Mia]

JFK
I realize that water is water is water as far as hydration goes, but what I'm talking about is not just a mere difference in taste, but a difference in the toxicity of the water you put in your body. Water to you may react the same as far as hydration goes, but I prefer, as a natural, organic, homeopath I am to drink only pure spring water and not put tap water that contains thousands of chemicals in my body. That's my expereince and preference. So, If I were to suffer from hyponatremia, I would at least prefer it to be pure spring water. But that's just me. Besides, maybe there is some truth that non-toxic spring water may contribute to your body not becoming hyponatremic so quickly with just as much water. I don't know, but I'll still enjoy my spring water and... not just for the taste. Thanks for your concern anyway.
Mia