Good Argument or jsut ignorant?

[megale3]

I was on first break today at the usual table with a bunch of guys reading the sports page. It is a usual morning thing with our crew. So like I see that the Tour Of Georgia gets a huge 4 lines in the Oregonian News and I am like "what is up wit dat!?" To which one of the other guys goes I hate cyclist (wrong answer) so he tells me he's stopped at a light and some cyclist puts his hand on his rear fender to hold himself up so he doesn't have to unclip - and a huge public argument starts in the middle of the street. Anger maylay words and disscontempt runs rampid.OK cyclist wrong made an enemy for all cyclists. So I say "he should have stayed in his bike lane and learned to track start if he wanted not to unclip." The guy says cyclist need to pay taxes for the use of their bikes on the street just like motorists do. to which I said well your kids would be paying taxes then. OK another public argument starts I just walked away. I know a hot head when I see one. Can this cyclist that held himself up be all that bad?
Meg

[RaffCycles]

The cyclist was wrong. As a cyclist, we should never be so bold to assume that someone will allow us to use their vehicle as a support.

We represent a larger group of people, but some cyclists don't think about that when they ride. I'm a person that will wait his turn in line at stop signs and traffic lights when I'm training. Why should the person that was so careful to pass me once, have to do it again.

I like your comment "your kids will be paying taxes then." What a great line and I'll have to use it sometime.

[Pink]

He was probably a good person who did a bad thing. (Like Imus, lol). Seriously, the cyclist was wrong but I'd say your co-worker was taking things a little too seriously. And, BTW, I'd gladly pay a 2-wheel road tax if it bought me wide, clean, maintained shoulders/bike lanes (that were honored by motorists).

[megale3]

You know they group all cyclist together. Even the ones that ride with the cigarette in their mouths, no helmet, greasy blue jeans and on a lil girls Huffy equiped with handle bar tassels that he probably stole from somebodies yard because he had his licence revoked due to a DUI. I think he was definitely bold and he did it to the wrong guy. Its amazing how they find each other in a city of millions :roll:
Meg

[Jennifer]

Do people really have nothing better to get upset about than someone touching their car? Good Lord, how about a little kindness toward your fellow man.

[megale3]

They will find each other Jen. Its like the movie Highlander. "There can only be one!" :P

[lizardbiker]

I really don't see what's so hard about unclipping - if you're riding where there's stop and go traffic, what's so hard about putting a foot down? It's not like it's a big race or anything - if you were in a big race, the traffic would be redirected out of your way. Grabbing a car to avoid unclipping is in my opinion beyond being a poser (sorry for offending anyone). More like... I don't know how to unclip in time to prevent tipping, so I'm going to put my dirty paws on your car (I have a God given right to be on this road, so I have a God given right to lean on anything on this road).

My total fascination and respect go to those who can stop and a red light and stay up without unclipping OR grabbing a stationary object. Only one person in my stomping grounds that can do that, and he's rated in the top 5 in the world for duathalons. I feel honored to be able to even see him at a red light... upright, clipped in and not leaning on anyone else's property.

[JFK]

I do pay taxes on the road since I'm the owner of multiple vehicles....I agree that we shouldn't presume to touch someone else's car, but I think the driver was getting a bit carried away.

In fact, I'd bet that most cyclists are drivers at least some of the time, so the argument that we should pay extra is ridiculous. I don't understand some motorists' hostility to cyclists (though it ticks me off when I see fellow riders doing stupid things). Why does some geek who likes to ride a bike so tick them off? :roll:

[lizardbiker]

Riding in my area of Pennsylvania I can totally understand the motorist point of view, although I am an avid cyclist. There is a cycling group that does group rides every Tuesday, and I make a point of NOT being on the road when this peleton of pathetic punks take the road. They ride 4 or more abreast and refust to yield to vehicles. They love to pass other cyclists as fast as they can, as close as they can and as quiet as they can, until they are right up on top of them and love to see their reaction to being passed by a paceline of pitiful peleton wannabees. Every season they reduce their numbers due to stupid accidents, but unfortunately take out other innocent cyclists who unknowingly join the group for a fitness ride. They think it's funny or macho to crash when it was totally unnecessary.

I was attempting to set up a Ride of Silence in our area for bike safety awareness and to recognize cyclists who have been injured in vehicle mishaps, but the more I see the way they ride in this area, I've decided to join in another Ride of Silence in another community, as a ride to try promoting sharing the road here would be a joke until the cyclists learn to share the road responsibly also.

Just the other day another cyclist was put in the hospital - taking his big dog for a run through the neighborhood at dusk without any lights or helmet, wearing dark clothes, as was his fashion. He was found on the road with his head split open, broken collarbone and leg. The papers praised him for being such a great cyclist. Lots of quotes from his fellow idiots from the reckless cycling group about being a great cyclist who was meticulous about wearing his helmet (in public races where helmets were mandatory). He was (actually still is - not dead) an idiot who could pedal really hard - his only claim to fame. No common sense, and did more to ruin the reputation of cycling than he did by being a good time trialist. Wasn't that great, as his only time trials were against his fellow local roadies.

Ends up as the story unfolds, he didn't have a vehicle mishap, but his dog decided to chase a rabbit as they were going down a hill at about 35mph. They did it almost every evening and have had many close calls over the past several weeks.

Forgive my tangents - lots of stuff going on in my head. I do my best to promote cycling - both outside and inside. But like the saying goes about one awshit wiping out all your attaboys, it takes one idiot, or one group of idiots, to totally destroy respect for the rest of the cyclists in the area. Think you're too good to unclip so you put your sweaty hands on someone else's car? Think about the other cyclists that driver may encounter on their commute. I hate being the victim of a pissed off driver due to a cyclist that pissed the driver off before he encountered me...

[Pink]

Riding in my area of Pennsylvania I can totally understand the motorist point of view, although I am an avid cyclist. There is a cycling group that does group rides every Tuesday, and I make a point of NOT being on the road when this peleton of pathetic punks take the road. They ride 4 or more abreast and refust to yield to vehicles. They love to pass other cyclists as fast as they can, as close as they can and as quiet as they can, until they are right up on top of them and love to see their reaction to being passed by a paceline of pitiful peleton wannabees. Every season they reduce their numbers due to stupid accidents, but unfortunately take out other innocent cyclists who unknowingly join the group for a fitness ride. They think it's funny or macho to crash when it was totally unnecessary.

I was attempting to set up a Ride of Silence in our area for bike safety awareness and to recognize cyclists who have been injured in vehicle mishaps, but the more I see the way they ride in this area, I've decided to join in another Ride of Silence in another community, as a ride to try promoting sharing the road here would be a joke until the cyclists learn to share the road responsibly also.

Just the other day another cyclist was put in the hospital - taking his big dog for a run through the neighborhood at dusk without any lights or helmet, wearing dark clothes, as was his fashion. He was found on the road with his head split open, broken collarbone and leg. The papers praised him for being such a great cyclist. Lots of quotes from his fellow idiots from the reckless cycling group about being a great cyclist who was meticulous about wearing his helmet (in public races where helmets were mandatory). He was (actually still is - not dead) an idiot who could pedal really hard - his only claim to fame. No common sense, and did more to ruin the reputation of cycling than he did by being a good time trialist. Wasn't that great, as his only time trials were against his fellow local roadies.

Ends up as the story unfolds, he didn't have a vehicle mishap, but his dog decided to chase a rabbit as they were going down a hill at about 35mph. They did it almost every evening and have had many close calls over the past several weeks.

Forgive my tangents - lots of stuff going on in my head. I do my best to promote cycling - both outside and inside. But like the saying goes about one awshit wiping out all your attaboys, it takes one idiot, or one group of idiots, to totally destroy respect for the rest of the cyclists in the area. Think you're too good to unclip so you put your sweaty hands on someone else's car? Think about the other cyclists that driver may encounter on their commute. I hate being the victim of a pissed off driver due to a cyclist that pissed the driver off before he encountered me...

Wow, Liz, I'll bet it felt good getting that out. Sometimes you've just got to shake your head.

[lizardbiker]

I'm all better now. Thank you.... I think I'll go to bed now....

[BFSpin]

I'm all better now. Thank you.... I think I'll go to bed now....

Glad you feel better :wink:

I heard about this guy's accident, and was trying to remember if I've met him - still not sure if I've ridden with him or not. Thanks for the update, in any event - I hadn't heard the details of his accident. Sounds like a little too much misplaced confidence on his part.

Mike, I think those guys at work better step away from the Starbucks.

Beth

[RaffCycles]

For some reason, no matter what time of day I ride, I manage to encounter an idiot driver. I've had a 9-year old boy tell me to get the F@$& off the road while his father indicated I was number one without using his index finger. I've been told to "Get on the sidewalk a$$whole" while the woman's son was in the front seat. I've had high school students throw their homewor, complete with their names, at me (I took them to the Police department and they said they would give them a call).

It never ceases to amaze me the number of idiots that want to run cyclists off the road. In fact one of our radio stations actually suggested that drivers try to do this (they got in a load of trouble from local advocates and politicians.)

We can only do so much, but we need to be true to the rules of the road and show drivers we don't think we are better than them by ignoring traffic laws.

[BFSpin]

An update of information reported on this guy in our local newspaper: "...remains in serious condition...was hurt when for unknown reasons he was thrown from his bicycle ...at about 6 a.m."

Not always an "idiot driver" involved. . .

Too bad, any way you look at it - hope this guy recovers well.

B

[Jennifer]

his father indicated I was number one without using his index finger.

Totally off the topic, but my 26 year old nephew is quite mentally challenged. He can never remember which finger is the "correct" one, so you usually get the pinky when he gets mad and flips you off. So, now my whole family does it as a joke. When someone irritates you, you give them the "Bobby Bird."

Uh, not that we go around giving people the finger. But this way you can do it in public :D

[lizardbiker]

An update of information reported on this guy in our local newspaper: "...remains in serious condition...was hurt when for unknown reasons he was thrown from his bicycle ...at about 6 a.m."

Not always an "idiot driver" involved. . .

Too bad, any way you look at it - hope this guy recovers well.

B

My friend, the nameless one in the paper who actually found him and his dog, is a good friend of the injured cyclist & his family - the wife said after two major helmetless accidents, if she sees him riding again without a helmet after he recovers, his bike is getting the hacksaw.

The latest guess as to what happened was his dog took chase after a neighborhood rabbit during a high speed descent while the cyclist was holding the dog's leash.

For the sake of his family, I hope he recovers and has learned his lesson. He's pretty busted up right now, including skull, collar bone and I think a leg too.

[lizardbiker]

his father indicated I was number one without using his index finger.

Totally off the topic, but my 26 year old nephew is quite mentally challenged. He can never remember which finger is the "correct" one, so you usually get the pinky when he gets mad and flips you off. So, now my whole family does it as a joke. When someone irritates you, you give them the "Bobby Bird."

Uh, not that we go around giving people the finger. But this way you can do it in public :D

I LIKE IT!!!!! Bobby birds for all ignorant motorists (and cyclists) from this day forth!!! :twisted:

[BFSpin]

My friend, the nameless one in the paper who actually found him and his dog, is a good friend of the injured cyclist & his family - the wife said after two major helmetless accidents, if she sees him riding again without a helmet after he recovers, his bike is getting the hacksaw.

The latest guess as to what happened was his dog took chase after a neighborhood rabbit during a high speed descent while the cyclist was holding the dog's leash.

For the sake of his family, I hope he recovers and has learned his lesson. He's pretty busted up right now, including skull, collar bone and I think a leg too.

I got the same thing from the woman who was quoted in yesterday's article. She went to see him - skull open to relieve pressure, broken collarbone, broken pelvis. Didn't recognize her. Likely a month in the med center, and 6 months of rehab.

Sad, however it happened.

B

[megale3]

I have had a few yahoos’ get in my way before. In Oregon we have plenty of bike paths but we still have our run-in's with people that think you are a target for humor. I was leading a group into Corbet( a small rural town ) My favorite ride to Multnomah Falls in the Columbia Gorge. When a yahoo in a dually honks at the end of the P line (we were in our Bike lane and going 24 in a 25 through town when he passes everyone as close to his side mirrors as he could get. When he reached 25 feet in front of me and turned back into the lane and hit the marbles which sprayed us with what felt like bb's. Dumb arss forgot that the town has stop lights and there was another car in front of him as we jammed cogs to get to the son o botcher. He was honking at the car in front of him to go and the light just turned green when we made it to the intersection -he jumped to the left of the car in front of him and took off as fast as he could. I am not sure what we would have done since there was 5 of us and one of him. I am not sure that he was not armed either but when you get into a situation like that you are not thinking straight.
Meg

[Pink]

his father indicated I was number one without using his index finger.

Totally off the topic, but my 26 year old nephew is quite mentally challenged. He can never remember which finger is the "correct" one, so you usually get the pinky when he gets mad and flips you off. So, now my whole family does it as a joke. When someone irritates you, you give them the "Bobby Bird."

Uh, not that we go around giving people the finger. But this way you can do it in public :D

Very cute. When my son was a youngun, he was very curious about "the curse finger." "Why was is not nice? Why only that one? Either hand?" on and on...eventually he shut up. Well, later that night, at the dinner table he asks, "Mommy, is there a curse toe?"

[Pink]

OK, my accident --

I was on a nice shoulder, but when I fell, I fell into the lane of traffic. Luckily, although there were cars, they could stop without hitting me or each other. I was face down. Enough blood that it was running to the side of the road. I was unconscious & seizing. How lucky for me that there was an on-duty policeman & an off-duty EMT in cars, right there, who watched the whole thing (my physcian DH was in husband mode, not doctor mode). Anyhooooo...the EMT called in the ambulance and the helicopter. The policeman stopped the traffic as the EMT said I shouldn't be moved. Here's my point...

Would you believe a woman parked a few cars back, ran up to the scene and started cussing out the policeman (he wasn't in uniform), screaming to get me off of the road because she was LATE FOR CHURCH???

Yup, you gotta just shake your head sometimes.

[megale3]

She was not going to heaven that day was she
M

[lizardbiker]

OK, my accident --

I was on a nice shoulder, but when I fell, I fell into the lane of traffic. Luckily, although there were cars, they could stop without hitting me or each other. I was face down. Enough blood that it was running to the side of the road. I was unconscious & seizing. How lucky for me that there was an on-duty policeman & an off-duty EMT in cars, right there, who watched the whole thing (my physcian DH was in husband mode, not doctor mode). Anyhooooo...the EMT called in the ambulance and the helicopter. The policeman stopped the traffic as the EMT said I shouldn't be moved. Here's my point...

Would you believe a woman parked a few cars back, ran up to the scene and started cussing out the policeman (he wasn't in uniform), screaming to get me off of the road because she was LATE FOR CHURCH???

Yup, you gotta just shake your head sometimes.

Sometimes, unfortunately, it's the church folk that are the most aggressive drivers getting to church AND ESPECIALLY GETTING OUT. Talking about another group, like cyclists, that have some bad apples that really ruin people's opinions of the rest of the group!

[JFK]

So, now my whole family does it as a joke. When someone irritates you, you give them the "Bobby Bird."

That's so funny, DH did that to me once as a joke and now we do it all the time (even people who've never seen it before "get it"). We do it as a pretend flipping people off, since, like you, that's not something we go around doing. :shock:

[lizardbiker]

I think I'm going to actually be INCREASING my flipping off frequency, just to use the Bobby Bird! :lol:

[lizardbiker]

Ok - now I've confirmed my resolution to do the Ride of Silence in another city other than Carlisle, where I work. Another cycling mishap with the biggest cycling group in the town that is the largest contributor to accidents and PO'd vehicles due to ignorant cycling behavior.

A fellow worker who was just getting into cycling again immediately was sucked into this group. On the weekly Tuesday ride, one of the regulars talked my coworker into a warmup ride before the regular ride. The coworker emphasized how he needs signals as to when to turn (like most cyclists) but would gladly go along for this ride. The regular took him for a high speed (anything BUT a warmup) ride with no signals as to where to turn (coworker nervous about this, as for a "joke" the regulars took him out on a high speed ride a couple weeks ago and then dropped him in the middle of nowhere, leaving him to figure out where he is and how to get back before dark - real f'n funny and another reasone I refuse to associate with these "elite cyclists") Anyway, the regular suddenly took a hard right turn without any warning (regulars would know that you do that hard right on their regular rides, but not outsiders). The coworker ended up getting his spokes chewed off by the regular's deraileur resulting in a crash and luckily the only thing broken was his front wheel. The regular's bike was still ridable, so he returned to the starting point to do the ride with the other regulars, leaving the coworker to hobble back to the starting point carrying his bike with a potentially dislocated shoulder.

Lessons learned -
1. never ride that close behind someone you don't know and trust
2. never get to know and trust any roadie in Carlisle PA

I feel so strong about participating in the Ride of Silence to promote cycle awareness and sharing the road, but not in an area where 99% of the cyclists are idiots and it would benefit the cycling community if they were removed from the gene pool. They would do the ride to promote sharing the road by riding 5 abreast and causing a couple major accidents.

There's a ride organized in Camp Hill - I'm going there.

[Pink]

Liz, I just don't understand it. Glad you co-worker was somewhat spared. He won't go back to their ranks again, will he?

[BFSpin]

Think I'll just stay out here in Hershey Tuesday evenings - sounds brutal where you are. While there are occasionally a few goofballs that show up on our group rides, we just don't encounter the situations you're talking about.

Maybe you'll need to head east to ride once in a while :)

Beth

[lizardbiker]

The coworker won't be riding, at least until he purchases a new wheel and gets his bike checked out and his shoulder heals. As to whether or not he returns to the Tuesday group... I'm guessing he's going to go back, just because he seems to fit the profile.

At least when they all stay together it makes it easier for me to ride - I just see where they're all heading and go the opposite direction! I also teach classes on Tuesdays, so when I start commuting on the bike (hopefully next week) they're ride is finishing up just as I'm ready to head out so no chances of an encounter.

There are some great routes on the east shore - do quite a bit of riding in Lancaster county. Never been up to Hershey on my bike though.

[Mark M]

We have one bike lane on a fairly busy road in our community. The bike lane begins as the road four lanes. However, since the bike lane is filled with loose gravel, glass and other debris more appropriate for a ditch, we always stay just outside the lane. A couple of weeks ago, as we emerged into the bike lane, we had a cop get on his horn and tell us to get into the bike lane (which lasts for no more than a mile or so). I wish I knew about the Bobby-finger sooner. :lol:

[BFSpin]

We have one bike lane on a fairly busy road in our community. . .

What is this "bike lane" of which you speak?

:?

Beth

[RaffCycles]

What is this "bike lane" of which you speak?
:?

Beth

Beth, bike lanes are often created in communities that want to provide a place for cyclists to be off of the sidewalk and safely out of the way of traffic. It is a small addition to the roadway usually between the parked cars or edge of the road and the main traffic lanes.

The attempt is futile since all the debris from the road usually winds up in this lane so cyclists ride just to the left of the lane.

http://www2.pps.org/file-storage/view/san-jose_bike-lane.jpg

[lizardbiker]

I'd be happy with just a decent shoulder or even a smooth edge of the road for that matter. We have some roads in this area that end at the white paint line in soft gravel/glass/beer cans... And with the fine Pennsylvania construction codes for the roads, some areas are rutted and cratered for several feet into the driving lane.

At the beginning of each season I make a point of trying to drive some of my favorite starting routes just to see if the roads have gotten any worse. We do have one road along the Yellow Breeches that has a short section of bike lane, but it's a popular fishing area, so it usually ends up a parking lot for fishermen.

[sandy]

Lizard I am in total awe of riders that can do a track stand at a light! I've seen it done once and I was blown away. Anyway, I live about 18 miles north of NYC and we get alot of riders coming up from the city. I love the sport just about as much as anybody, but some of these people that ride up are some of the most egotistical smarty pants I've ever seen. And you know they think they have the right to blow through lights, ride double or triple up the road and I'm sure use a car so they don't have to clip out.

[lizardbiker]

Lizard I am in total awe of riders that can do a track stand at a light! I've seen it done once and I was blown away. Anyway, I live about 18 miles north of NYC and we get alot of riders coming up from the city. I love the sport just about as much as anybody, but some of these people that ride up are some of the most egotistical smarty pants I've ever seen. And you know they think they have the right to blow through lights, ride double or triple up the road and I'm sure use a car so they don't have to clip out.

The only thought I have when I see the "cyclist" that think they're ALL THAT, is....if you're so Dam# great, what are you doing trying to show off here, rather than be on a team? In the cycling world, if you got it, you know it, and don't have to show it. I usually give the show offs a real stupid looking double thumbs up and say "good for you!!" - it makes their day cuz they think they're cool, and it makes my day cuz I gave them the same compliment that I give to a pozer.

[tracik]

My total fascination and respect go to those who can stop and a red light and stay up without unclipping OR grabbing a stationary object. Only one person in my stomping grounds that can do that, and he's rated in the top 5 in the world for duathalons. I feel honored to be able to even see him at a red light... upright, clipped in and not leaning on anyone else's property.

You would be speaking of Josh Beck, I presume?

There are many yahoo cyclists and drivers in York as well, Liz. Guess I'm not too surprised Dillsburg is the same. Who was the guy that got hurt, if you don't mind saying? Just wondering if it's someone I know. I used to ride with some people from Harrisburg and the surrounding areas before kids...now there's no time to drive somewhere to ride, just get out the door and ride! :!:

[lizardbiker]

My total fascination and respect go to those who can stop and a red light and stay up without unclipping OR grabbing a stationary object. Only one person in my stomping grounds that can do that, and he's rated in the top 5 in the world for duathalons. I feel honored to be able to even see him at a red light... upright, clipped in and not leaning on anyone else's property.

You would be speaking of Josh Beck, I presume?

There are many yahoo cyclists and drivers in York as well, Liz. Guess I'm not too surprised Dillsburg is the same. Who was the guy that got hurt, if you don't mind saying? Just wondering if it's someone I know. I used to ride with some people from Harrisburg and the surrounding areas before kids...now there's no time to drive somewhere to ride, just get out the door and ride! :!:

It would be Josh - he is one of the very few cyclists in this area that I have 200% total respect for. Fantastic athelete and a great person. 8) Heck of a runner too, not to mention his indoor cycling classes when I used to belong to the Y. Usually the road grief comes from all the Josh wannabees on their Tuesday night rides from Carlisle. I'm glad to be teaching indoor cycling while they're out terrorizing the roads. Dillsburg actually is a nice area to ride - no shoulders on the roads, but the drivers tend to be polite and the Carlisle group doesn't tend to wander too far over Whiskey Springs. Occasionally they'll whiz by my house and I'm glad Cal II is safe inside.

The person who got hurt is fairly new to the area, and just recently started participating in the group rides, so I don't think you'd recognize his name.