Sanity Check

[like2bike]

OK please set my a$$ straight once and for all WRT the two symbols for Sprints in the Spinning program.

1. The spinning symbol with the "X" inside the box is the symbol for Sprinting on a Hill (when you load resistance in the saddle, explode out to HP3 Standing Climb, holding your sprint to break the resistance and sprint here for approx 5 seconds, and take it back down to the saddle and hold the resistance and your speed for an additional 10 seconds before backing off the resistance and speed to recover).

2. The spinning symbol with the right bottom portion shaded (like a seated climb) and a dark line jutting out diagonally of the shaded portion (like this: \ ) is the symbol for a Sprint in the Saddle or in HP3 Out of the Saddle, but holding that same position (in or out of saddle) for 15-20 seconds or so (at the same resistance you had the riders at as long as they are on a hill (60, 70, or 80 RPMs).

Do I have this right? I used to think the symbols were reversed, but I believe in a recent thread someone mentioned I had it backwards and I believe what I've written above it correct but I need confirmation.

HELP!

[RaffCycles]

The X is for sprints, the other sprint symbol that looks like a combined seated climb and X is for sprints on a hill. You just have them mixed up here.

[like2bike]

The X is for sprints, the other sprint symbol that looks like a combined seated climb and X is for sprints on a hill. You just have them mixed up here.

OK but read this post by Chkadee:

http://innercycling.com/f/showpost.php?p=60690&postcount=10

I think my understanding of what the symbols mean is what's messing me up here.

So let's see if I've got it now. The X in a Box is stated to be a SPRINT. This means you build up resistance in your saddle, explode to HP3, then back to seated climb and sprint in saddle (max 15-20 Sec).

The Seated Climb with the diagonal "arm" coming out of it symbol, is stated to be a SPRINT ON A HILL and this type of sprint is done in one static position (either a seated on a hill or a standing on a hill), and you're not moving between the 2 positions are you sprint.

Do I have it straight now? Remember, I have a pea-sized brain and only so much information is going to fit in there....:(

[Pink]

I didn't think I was confused until I read your post. I pulled out my manual:

The X (entitled "Sprint") is where you load resistance in a seated position, come out of the saddle, break through the gear, then sit & ride it out. (I had always called these sprints on a hill, but obviously I was wrong). Sprint is no longer than 30 seconds. Surprisingly (to me anyway), no true cadence parameters are given other than the sentence, "cadence shoiuld never exceed 110 rpm during the sprint."

The seated-climb-with-a-diagnal-line is a "Sprint on a Hill." The manual states that it can be done seated or standing. The difference is, the position doesn't change throughout the effort. In my manual it doesn't give any time parameters. Cadence parameters: 60-80 rpm.

[Pink]

Now you've got me questioning this, L2B. As if I don't overthink enough things.

Like I said, my manual describes Sprints on a Hill as building cadence, gaining momentum out of the saddle, then settling back in to ride out the sprint under heavy resistance. Why does it say not to allow candence to go over 110? It's a climb, shouldn't the usual 60-80 rpms apply?

Now, with this said, I can also say that I have NEVER given rpm parameters (nor HR parameters) for a SOH because they happen quickly and there should be too much resistance to go 80, let alone 110. I cue that it's about maximum effort/power.

Do you think this is why there's no stated cadence parameters?

[Julibird]

I have NEVER given rpm parameters (nor HR parameters) for a SOH because they happen quickly and there should be too much resistance to go 80, let alone 110. I cue that it's about maximum effort/power.

Do you think this is why there's no stated cadence parameters?


Giba says, "sprints are about POWER, not speed" (ie, not high cadences, which he went on to elaborate).

So, Pink, you get this already!

[kszspin]

Pink and L2B....personally I only use the word "sprint" in class when we do the one described in the SIM (the one with the "X" in the box), the type that Pink described as started out seated loading R, come out to overcome the R, and sit down and hold the power and speed.
The other one I just call a "surge" on a hill. We'll get our resistance up so our cadence drops around 60 rpms, I'll get them to get into a good rhythm, settle in, then ask them to surge up to what they think is around 80rpms (anywhere from 15 secs up to 45 sec), then settle back into their original cadence. Resistance stays the same, it's just like pedaling out of their comfort zone temporarily.
I honestly wish someone somewhere (powers that be) would re-write this in the SIM, it isn't very clear and I think using the word "sprint" on both is the real issue.
Just my .02 cents. 8)

[monical1]

When we were at the WSSC, having dinner at the overpriced place where they drowned the caeser salad in dressing, which didn't keep me from eating it, this conversation came up. It was between Pink, Mr. Pink, Tdeckert, Kszspin and myself. I was talking about coaching my students to do sprints and Kszspin said "you mean pedal accelerations" to which I believe I responded a bit defensively, saying something like "Well, I only have them do it for 10 or 15 seconds." (I'm sorry Kel, Your so smart and I should have taken your guidance to heart right then and there :redface:). However, I did eventually take it to heart and now I've noticed that since I changed the lingo that I use to coach them, they aren't pedaling with such fevered varacity. "Sprint" seems to send them somewhere I don't want them to go. I coach resistance and pedal accelerations along with HR parameters and I'm getting the desired affect. Thanks Kel, you smarty!

[Pink]

Pink and L2B....personally I only use the word "sprint" in class when we do the one described in the SIM (the one with the "X" in the box), the type that Pink described as started out seated loading R, come out to overcome the R, and sit down and hold the power and speed.
The other one I just call a "surge" on a hill. We'll get our resistance up so our cadence drops around 60 rpms, I'll get them to get into a good rhythm, settle in, then ask them to surge up to what they think is around 80rpms (anywhere from 15 secs up to 45 sec), then settle back into their original cadence. Resistance stays the same, it's just like pedaling out of their comfort zone temporarily.
I honestly wish someone somewhere (powers that be) would re-write this in the SIM, it isn't very clear and I think using the word "sprint" on both is the real issue.
Just my .02 cents. 8)

Exactly, Kel. I guess I never read the manual closely enough because I thought there was only one type of "sprint" -- the resistance loading, etc. In my head it was called "Sprints on a Hill."

I haven't been certified as long as most of you but I wonder, was there ever 'flat-road sprints' of some sort in the program? I am wondering if they were deemed unsafe because candence could get out of control and they were dropped from the program...hence the 2 different "sprints," which, technically, are done on a hill.